Battle Plans for Irondell

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Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Snarg of Wildpaw on Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:02 am

Snarg returns from his initial scouting with information. This isn't strictly word-for-word in-character per-say, but he'll be talking about all of this.

Initial scouting reveals that there are light patrols and no fortifications around Irondell. Unless they have more forces hidden, they are unlikely to be prepared to defend against a planned attack from Janwell. The major consideration is probably the Fel Knight. Luckly, Radnaal has a description of him, so we can identify him and focus fire once he makes his presence known. It is likely that taking him out will severely demoralize their force and severely weaken it. Disabling him will be top priority, so drawing him out into a place to our advantage will be ideal.

We know how the Dwarves fight from watching them battle in Janwell (can we get a summary of how they were fighting and with what weapons/armor, please?) and we have seen a Fel Knight in action before so we have an advantage there. Ideally we will want to take down the Fel Knight in the open at range before he has a change to get within range to use any of his abilities or disable him. His weapon is a prime target as he will be unable to use his strikes without it as we've seen from Scargil. If he does get within range, a focus-fire is really necessary or he'll start to mow through people.

I'm almost of the mind to rest a bit to regain everyone's mana, although that may prove to be too much of a wait. I dunno, we'll see when Kolson is able to get here and what time it is then. A night attack would help with the initial assault instead of going in during the day time since we don't really have a way to defend against an arrow barrage other than just getting there fast. Creating chaos very quickly will help ensure they don't have time to organize themselves, and if we stay cool, we can just pick them off before they mobilize.

It's pretty similar to the Janwell situation, so a quick charge at the outlaying defenses may work out. However, charging right in there is probably just going to end up with us getting surrounding and annihilated - especially in an urban setting. Having remote lights we can toss out to reveal the enemy but not ourselves would be ideal once we get in to town. That will help prevent ambushes. If we can get a high building and snipe from it we can get a definite advantage once we are in the town. We can potentially get the civilians on our side if the town was just recently captured. There also might be captured troops there as well which we can free and arm.

As always, forcing surrender can be much more effective than simply aiming to kill everyone. Especially once their leader and champions are broken, they will likely demoralize and surrender much more easily. The Fel Knight and Gretta herself are the primary targets ... dead or alive.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:20 am

Edited for clarification! I was writing with my cellphone and made a bunch of mistakes.

Unimportant stuff not about the plans, but message to Higaide and those interested to read:
I don't know what happened after I left, so I can't participate in this discussion for now.

Just wanted to say sorry to Higaide for going to the Fire Temple. I realized later at work that he needs to get near a Leyline to get "cured". I completely forgot about this. Sorry. I'll pretend that Zeiss didn't learn from the others in the party about this specific detail, just to maintain some in-character cohesion.

There is also the fact that I gave you the Leycite, something only a Zeiss with his memories would have done (keeping track of two different "timelines" really screwed with my poor brain) . I'll ask Arch to retcon something : make it that Higs is the one who took the Leycite from Fierneceal when she was unconscious. I tried to find something that would motivate brainwashed Zeiss to give it to you and that would not require any kind of retconning, but I'm short on ideas.

I just really want for Zeiss' actions to make sense, at least from my point of view.

Later!


Last edited by Zeiss on Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:32 am; edited 5 times in total
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Rory on Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:02 am

Aside from planning chaos and catching them up close and by surprise, here's my opinion regarding the VIP's.

We should go ahead and kill the Fel Knight. He's the trump card, and if we don't, people will be counting on him to bounce back, or play him some other time when plotting against us. Morality should plummet when we make it known that he's dead, preferably getting a lot of firsthand witnesses from the opposing side.

Once we have the town under our control and Gretta under the boot, we should propose a fair fight between her and one of the Exchange, a "champion" who can't be a rogue or a pure mage. Winner takes the town and command of the merger. She's a Dwarf, she won't refuse that. I mean, it's either that or rot in a cell. I'm sure Rekarg or Radnaal could pull strings and have her tried and sentenced. Even if she gets out of jail, the events of the campaign would have long since passed, and escaping would only make her a fugitive on the run from the Lawr.

And Zeiss, if you'd rather we try to approach this diplomatically first, now would be the time to tell the rest of the group In-Character about the deal you made with Gretta. If you don't, she'll be pretty pissed at you later.

A certain spoilery spoiler in Dragon Age comes to mind.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:40 am

Edited : took care of the mistakes.


...You guys KNOW I made this deal. In fact, I got help during the negotiations from certain party members. Most of you were there with me in Ritholme, around the table, talking about it. The letter I sent was just to make sure that deal was still going, despite the war.

Unless someone would be super awesomy diddy enough to write me a summary of what happened after I left the game, I'll just ask you guys live during our next Savagery session.

For the most part, I agree with Rory's plan, except the duel. Never leave the victory in the hands of honor when you could win the war in a straight up fight with your troops.

Unless we send Thog.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by K on Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:57 am

Well, i'm the guy who always wonders if we couldn't have talked things out. If this were a videogame, i'd be tempted to fight it out for the xp, but here it doesn't work that way, fortunately.

Pros are we avoid a lot of bloodshed and maybe gain a new ally. A good thing, considering the kind of enemies we have. Cons are we could be compromising whatever element of surprise we might have by knocking on Gretta's door first.

Then again, maybe we could do one without sacrificing the other, but we'd probably still have to split our forces in the process.

EDIT:

ZEISS:
Also, Zeiss, even if i did take advantage of women while they're unconscious, which i mostly don't, how and why would i have taken the Leycite from Fier when she didn't even have it in the first place? I realize you're trying to plug a hole, but that solution would just make a bigger one. Also, i kinda forgot the extent of the fire temple's importance to my condition, which seems to have greatly improved of late, so i didn't really place proper vehemence into my wanting to visit the temple. Not that i wouldn't relish making you feel guilty over screwing me over Twisted Evil , but this one's on me too, so don't sweat it too much.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:35 am

I am personally unconvinced that Gretta would accept to surrender her authority. If the Exchange had more towns under its control, a diplomatic solution would be more likely, but I don't see that happening (think Rome and other nations asking to join them because it seems more profitable to do so). NOW, I did come come up with a framework of a plan. I don't really know what is happening, but I agree that Gretta and the Fel Knight are the primary targets since we're attacking her faction. 

Me, Fierneceal and Rory (the latter two acting as bodyguards) go to meet Gretta. If she receives us, I'm going to propose her a business deal : to make their organization part of the Exchange. Why? Because Zeiss wants to raise an army to fight Gaerlan, the Tumeroks and the Pinnacle. And we need to set personal interests aside to accomplish this. If she doesn't believe us, I'll ask Fierneceal to do some mind-sharing to convince her. If Gretta accepts, she still acts as leader of her region but receives some orders from the Exchange's leadership. We can even chip in some scionic ability if the party agrees.

If she refuses, and the Fel Knight isn't with her, we kill her. Fierneceal can then signal the rest of the party to attack. Rory can transform into a Tusker to attack the enemy troops if need be, which would scare the crap of everyone and create chaos. "A Tusker! A Tusker is attacking us!"

If she refuses, and the Fel Knight is with her, we leave peacefully then prepare an attack. We can still use Rory as a distraction while we leave, depending on the situation. Fierneceal can relay intelligence to the rest of the party too.

Then we fight. There, that's the framework of my plan.

To K:
Actually, I did give the Leycite to Fierneceal before I went to scout Janwall. Arch simply forgot about it I guess (or my accent got in the way of him understanding me). Zeiss could also have asked Higaide to make sure to get the Leycite from Fierneceal while she was unconscious, since we were assuming at the time that she was still insanely dangerous. Then Zeiss would simply have left you to carry it then forgot to take it back, since you know, we got brainwashed. What do you think about that? Would that fit Higaide's personality? I'll still try to find a reason for brainwashed Zeiss to give you the Leycite though. *scratch his head* Not easy.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Snarg of Wildpaw on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:43 pm

Snarg will state that he doesn't think any diplomacy is an option right now. All that will give them is knowledge that we're coming and ruin any advantage we may have. They've obviously willing to use force to just take towns, so there's no reason to believe that they'll negotiate in any way. A sudden counter-attack will catch them off-guard.

He doesn't really think that Gretta will actually keep to her word even if she does agree to something. This is the time to make an example through force rather than diplomacy. No one ever does anything during diplomacy because we have nothing to back us up. We have just made an example of our generosity in Janwell and now is the time to provide an example of what happens when you move against us.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Rory on Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Now that I think of it, some of the Slates fighting in Janwall would have made it back to Irondell before we are ready to put our plan in action. When Gretta gets reports of  familiar faces/names attacking her men, she'll consider the deal void. I'd still prefer we try to subdue her rather than kill her.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:38 pm

Okay, I am now confused. When did we attack her men? Why did we attack them? What happened so that we are now preparing to attack Irondell? Why is Radnaald  helping us?

Someone need to be super duper awesome and write a summary of the recent facts for me. Especially now that we don't have a Savagery session : I can't handle not knowing. I'll give cookies to the person who does. I promise. I'll make them and give them to you in person. If we ever see each other in real life one day. Razz

If possible, I could also try to sneak in to assassinate Gretta if I know where she is.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by K on Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:55 pm

I think we're missing the point a little here. Gretta may be the head, but an organization doesn't just die because it's decapitated. There are always plenty of people ready and eager to ride the vacuum and take her place, and the ones who do rarely turn to be reasonable people.

Our intervention, diplomatic or martial, needs to send a message that will dissuade the Slates from screwing with Runner territory again. An anonymous assassination just does not accomplish that; if anything, i can provoke them to fiercer action. If we do things by force we need to either overwhelm them, which we can't, or pick our battles in such a way as to have a similar effect to their morale.

Defeating Greta's general, or whatever Mr Fell Knight seems to be, would accomplish that, but it has to be done in the light. Killing Gretta herself, by contrast, would only anger them, regardless of how it's done, since the organization's next leader will just use her death as a springboard to galvanize the remaining members, and we'd be the target. Or worse, the Runners would, and we'd only turn Radnall out (or worse, back against us) after having gone through such a hassle to semi-gain his trust.

This all goes back to Fier's reasoning back at Janwall. A defeated live enemy serves your purpose far better than a dead one, especially if said enemy has an army at his command.

Regardless of our approach, i think Gretta definitely needs to stay alive


Last edited by K on Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Rory on Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:05 pm

Woops, my bad. We aided the Slates against the Runners, but Fierneceal used her Psionic whip thingy on everyone in within her range before Radnaal showed up, and then we herded them to the building where Zeiss watched them. What happened to those guys?

Also, as long as we're still nearby, I think we should check up on Trenaran's group. Radnaal might know what happened to them.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Gwydo on Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:53 pm

While Gwydo would never support the cold blooded killing of anyone, he does recognize that some deaths cannot be avoided.

That said, unless the Fel Knight can be turned (mercenary just working for money or something and we can "buy" him), the Slates cannot continue to operate with his support. They will always fight back if they think they have, or can get, the upper hand.

Likewise, if Gretta feels like she is not in charge anymore, I doubt she will agree to being taken over by another group, even if it means at the cost of her life.

I think what we need to do is ensure that whoever is GOING to take over the Slates is in league with the Exchange and willing to work with us. OR we completely disband the Slates.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:09 pm

I agree with completely disbanding the Slates. The Exchange is not powerful enough to force a merge.

Now, I think we all agree that the Fel Knight must go. I propose that we kill him. There is only a small chance that we could turn him against the Slates (honour getting in the way). And I think it is unwise to hire someone who would so easily betray his faction.

We are then left with Gretta and her troops. We must either kill her and some of her soldiers so that they flee by themselves, broken, or we kill most of her troops and let Gretta live. The problem with both of these options is this : one of them might want revenge.

There is another option : kill Gretta and most of her troops, letting only a handful of them to escape so that they can talk about the Exchange's takeover. I am in favor of this option since it presents the less risk of retaliation. If it is impossible to do so, I suggest we kill Gretta and some of her troops.

Now, assuming Radnallll doesn't help us, here is what we have : a bunch of player characters.

One of them can transform into a Tusker. We should use that to spread fear.

There is also a Scion. Awesome abilities that are fearsome too.

Since the Fel Knight is what worries us right now, we should take him down as fast as we can. Then we can simply push our way through.

That's pretty much my reasoning. Can we at least agree that we must strike down that Knight?
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Rory on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:48 pm

Well, how big are the Runners? Maybe we could force an alliance or let the Runners swallow the Slates.

Radnaal has made it clear that he won't help, but we've made a deal with him, a proposed alliance with him on the ground level beside us in earnings and benefits, Just like Bonebreaker and Oghren methinks. All we have to do to cement this is retake Irondell for "us". Essentially, we're saying we're willing to risk our lives for his trust/partnership.

I think "renown" is a better word. I agree that the Fel Knight is an acceptable casualty, but if we can afford to take on another leader/ally at our level, we should let Gretta live and promise her a high-ranking position in the new united undermarket. If the Fel Knight is still alive when she accepts that, then we could allow him to recover. If it's any consolation, Rory won't be sticking around to keep any rank or monetary benefit. I don't think Gwydo or Fierneceal will either. Kez might, but probably not at a position of power at or above what Gretta wants. It would be nice to have an Olthoi to be the one pulling strings in backroom diplomacy, the paperwork jobs, and just being what she is.

It's really too bad, you don't see many Fel Knights. Under the right conditions, he could prove to be a loyal constituent later on. I mean, we have a Scion tactician, a promising possible alliance with a Dragoon tactician, and we could possibly gain the loyalty of a Fel Knight if we play our cards right. And this is both a blessing and a curse, but it sounds to me like this Fel Knight hasn't been on the field much recently, which means he could be a tactician as well.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Snarg of Wildpaw on Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:03 am

Yes, striking down a Fel Knight could do more good than actually having him join us.

If they can be convinced to join, sure, but there's a pretty high chance of a backstab. Making an example by killing them will ensure that we can convince others in the future to join and actually have them want to join. Otherwise we'll get a string of join-backstab-kill-join-backstab-kill over and over again. Need to do something that the warlords will understand.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:47 am

I agree with Snarg.

How about this? We take down the Fel Knight and if possible, take Gretta alive. I would not even mind if she managed to escape. She would appear weakened and we could take care of her later.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by K on Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:19 am

ZEISS:
We could go for a Doldrey strategy.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:40 am

To K:
It actually took me a while to get that reference. Razz

That strategy cannot work unfortunately. Irondell doesn't have any kind of fortifications.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:42 am

So I thought about something that Zeiss will share with the rest of the party in-character.

Remember that Oghren, the Exchange's "accountant", was in a room full of gold, platinum and writs? I realized that the Slates must have something similar, most probably in Ritholme. In fact, that cache of money is what makes the Slates a functional organization. If we took their towns and their gold, it would not matter if Gretta and some of her soldiers are left alive, they would probably disband anyway. AND we would probably get enough money to fund our little project : the Pyrreal mine.

Now, how to attack the Fel Knight. I assume he has some soldiers with him.

I approach Irondell with at least two other party members (preferably the ones who can do the most damage in a single attack). Our weapons are ready, but I have blood on me. Then I explain to the Fel Knight that the Exchange was helping the Slates attack the Runners in Janwall. But now, the Runners are preparing to attack from the opposite side of town WHILE they send a Tusker from the direction me and the other two party members are coming from. The wound I have should look something done by a beast. Thog should then howl to make that believable.

If that works, I hope that the Fel Knight (who I assume is in a leadership position) sends most of the troops at the opposite side of town where they think an attack is mounting while he stays there to attack that "monster". We could even prepare some distractions at the other side of town. But the rest of the party is hiding, preparing themselves to attack the Fel Knight. When you guys arrive, me and the other two party members do a surprise attack on the Knight. Then we send everyone else against him.

I don't know if that plan is good, but I hope it will at least give us some ideas.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Archengeia on Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:02 pm

Just to verify something.  From the recon and info you have as of now, you know absolutely nothing about this Fel Knight except for the fact that s/he exists.  Probably.

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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by K on Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:50 pm

I really gotta re-emphasize the fact we're fighting an entire organization with just a handful of people. Even if Fier flew off the handle again and destroyed another town, it would still be nothing toward actually routing them through straight up martial might, not to mention the consequences.

Radnall might know more about them, so i think his input would be pretty valuable. If he says no way they can be reasoned with, then i guess we should gear up for a scuffle, but that should not be Plan A. And even if we do end up doing it the hard way, we'll need tons more information than we have now. Fighting that Golem blind was nothing compared to this.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Rory on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:37 pm

I thought we were doing well without Fierneceal's outburst at Janwall. I broke through a wall, and from then on it was as if Lady Luck had kissed the dice while Arch was asleep.

And Zeiss, you might wanna rethink your plan with the Tusker. To say that the thing managed to hit you without killing you would be lying through your teeth. I'd be surprised if Arch didn't exclude your bonuses for that roll.

And what I think is our best plan is to use whatever distractions we can to scatter or otherwise disorganize the troops in Irondell, charge in fast and keep an eye out for anybody using Fel Knight abilities. We probably won't be able to spot one before it attacks, but if we discover one I suggest we disarm it or go for its sword arm.

For getting in close at night, we could make use of sheets of wooden debris from Janwall as cover, then drop them once we enter the town or melee range, whichever we encounter first. Before that though, we could have someone sneak in on the other side of town and set off a bomb or start a fire. If we do that, I suggest we start the diversion on the side closest to Janwall, while we circle around and run in from the north.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:16 pm

K, this tread is called Battle Plans. I'm preparing a plan for a battle in case we need it. And I already said I disagree with diplomacy in this case since we have nothing to convince the Slates to join the Exchange and make sure they don't try to backstab us.

Yes Rory, it would be lying. I don't know what bonuses Arch would exclude though. I didn't even think I would have one. Maybe you think the wound was going to be real? Which wasn't really what I was going for, so I'm sorry for not specifying it. But now that I know that we don't know who the Fel Knight is, that plan is useless.

As for getting wooden debris, I suppose we are too far away from Janwall to get some (don't know where we are exactly). But there must be forests nearby, so it's not like we have to return there.

As for distractions, I have a purse of gunpowder I am carrying since Naverre. It's small, but it can ignite something. It won't be useful by itself though.
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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Archengeia on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:30 pm

I've noticed you guys do this now and again.  You'll put forth ideas but no one will agree on anything or vote on anything so there's no actual decision.  I only bring this up because if you want to have an actual plan of action (attack or otherwise) it might be prudent to have everyone on the same page.

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Re: Battle Plans for Irondell

Post by Zeiss on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:38 pm

You're right. And it's becoming tiresome. -_-

Then let's start with this : who wants to try a diplomatic solution before attacking? Meaning we make the Slates join the Exchange. Please vote.

I vote that we attack immediately (however we do it, we'll decide that later).
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