OOC discussion

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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:12 am

Before reading Steve's response, I feel the need to retcon something. I slipped in somewhere that I'd yelled that initial expletive "for the world to see". Considering I've just met Steve, and I was the one who just said I was worried about making a scene, I'm going to have to drop the implied volume of my opening retort to "probably nearby people heard it" instead of "let's scream it to the block".
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Zeiss on Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:17 am

Done.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:28 pm

So how has the plan changed? I was going to cut my hand and go into the woods to lure it, and when it reaches us, I assume K will try to talk to it?

Unless we're having Breeze fly out to draw it to us, only that might just provoke it to attack anyway.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by K on Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:50 pm

Or we could ask Fedler to scream, but yeah. Is the plan. Breeze is staying well and back, though, beyond the wolf's notice. She'll only jump in if and when i fail to communicate with it and it starts attacking. Might be no need to cut your hand, though.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:50 am

K wrote:Just off the top of my head, but:

The question is, how big a knife and acid vial you can give to a creature 6 inches tall, that will go unnoticed. Also, if Lavoie puts Breeze in a sealed container, using the acid will likely kill her. We're also relying on the incompetence of Lavoie, who's already shown a good level of cunning, and her professional gangster bodyguards, and the competence of Breeze, who pretty much has the mind of a child - and all this with us being completely unable to intervene if something goes wrong. And we're also assuming an organization such as the Coins - who are themselves probably hiding something from us in all this mess, by the way, would treat Breeze any better than Lavoie did, and would not just outright sell her to the Oracle for the right price - and that Breeze herself would want to join them in the first place.

Even if it did succeed, Breeze would be cut-off from us. Fedler unable to help. The Oracle would be pissed, because there's absolutely no way she can be that stupid, and we'd still be just as ignorant of this whole mess as we are right now.

If you guys don't mind, we'd probably better discuss this on Steam, later tonight.
Knives aren't much heavier than cupcakes. Vials are even lighter, even with liquid. I suppose we could give her a razor. They won't be noticeable because Breeze will be holding them, and she'll be inside a sack of cupcakes tied shut. The lid of a glass container wouldn't be made of glass and will therefore be susceptible to corroding. Besides, Breeze should be capable of lifting the jar from the inside and dropping it to smash herself free. Breeze is actually pretty smart, you'll just have to take my word on that. Breeze said she wanted to join the Coins and told as much to the mercenaries who found her, who were also Coins mercenaries. Those people are a reasonable testament to the moral standing of the organization. Fedler will be with her to put in a good and honest word that Breeze was helpful and would be a valuable member of the organization.

We're the player characters. Kolson will be the one lying for us, and you and I will aid him. We only need to succeed at lying to the oracle to convince her that we have captured Breeze, and then later concealing our involvement by - you guessed it - lying some more. I have full confidence in our ability.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Zeiss on Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:27 am

Your characters would know that it would be very unlikely to find acid in a village such as Waterglass.


Also, let me remind you that Marie Lavoie is an Oracle. I'm not talking just about the title, but also the prestige class, and everything implied by that name.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:02 am

New plan: Steve and Konrad will tell Breeze and Fedler about this plan, and they will tell Mihai later when it's time for his role. F*** everyone else, this goes right over their heads.

Breeze gets nothing. During the festival, while Mihai is sufficiently distracted, she gets put inside a sack of cupcakes. Steve and Konrad lie their asses off to the oracle, who will take her and put her inside a cage, something that can be locked.

Besides, it wouldn't be smart for the oracle to put her inside something sealed. If a fairy breathes in acid, she'll likely suffocate, but she'll likely suffocate anyway after a sufficient amount of time spent inside a sealed container with a limited amount of oxygen. We don't have acid though, so it doesn't matter.

Steve will leave and tell Mihai about the plan, and that it's basically his turn, and maybe Mihai gets Fedler's help, but it'll be up to Mihai alone to break into the oracle's room at the inn and get Breeze out. It might be in the possession of her guards instead, if we choose to do this early. If not, well...you may want to wait until I've at least left the inn.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Kolson on Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:00 am

Well, just to throw it out there but if we can prove the Oracle had something to do with the plot there's nothing stopping us from "losing" their property after we take them into custody/kill them when they resist arrest. Are you sure we need to do this con at all? Or is this just something you wanted to try for fun? Cause I can understand that.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:50 am

Firstly, she's way above our level, and she has four guards. You could take her gold, but she has promised Konrad answers and a lay(there was plenty implied).

I guess we could try to prove it. IC, we should follow Steve's advice and return to the dead animal, and have Saemon Scan it for all he's worth. He only cast 1 spell in the fight, if I remember right. And then bag it.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by K on Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:03 am

You think the Oracle (btw, she's a frigging Oracle) would just put Breeze wherever, along with the sack of cupcakes? Not remove her from it? She doesn't have a library handy to shove her into, it'll have to be a cage. Either glass or bars, whatever - it'll be something portable; not something you can fit a bag of cupcakes along. And even if she could somehow smuggle a razor on her person, just what would that do for her? The only thing she could cut with it would be herself.

Either way, i really don't understand what this would accomplish. If you want to send Breeze to the Coins,why all this charade? Just send her off with Fedler and be done with it. We'll be worse off when we have to deal with the thieves, for not having our Ranger and healer around, but at least we wouldn't have shoved the Fairy into certain capture.

And btw, i'd just like to point out that Marie's diary is lying in that Fort. With possibly all the answers we might need about her.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:23 am

Let me be blunt: this is a workaround for my character's immediate goal that would also work for you guys. This is because a)the part where Breeze escapes was an addition to the plan, and b)I'm actually telling you. Furthermore, my character doesn't care if she goes to the Coins, but I know that your characters would care if the oracle continued trying to protect and capture the fairy via methods that put other people in danger. Getting her into the Coins makes her part of a company that will hire out their own people to protect her if she's captured and deal with any threats that are bothering her. People who capture or kill us as a risk completely unrelated to any job we're on would instantly make enemies of the Coins if they caught wind of it. At least, I'm hoping that's the case, but as I said, my character doesn't care.

I just revised the plan for Breeze to have nothing on her when we hand her over. The razor was supposed to be for cutting out of the bag, which is a thing that can be cut through. But the sack stays, the cupcakes stay, and Breeze stays inside it. It's not enough to say we caught her, we want to show her as well, and we don't want to walk around town with a fairy in our hand - at least, I don't believe the oracle would like that either.

You think I care if she takes her out of the bag and puts her in a cage? That's where you come in. Furthermore, I think she will be pleased to know that Breeze has expended all of her mana. She will let her guard down, or at the very least she will not secure Breeze any more than she intends to. All you have to do is grab the cage Breeze is trapped in, and leave. Later, you can take your time with the lock or use bolt cutters.

I want answers to questions I have and I want her rockin' bod. And the certainty of her capture, sir, is entirely up to whether or not you choose to participate. I'm not going to rely on what may or may not be written in her journal. She will tell me what I want to know. If I don't think she's lying, the journal may or may not have the correct answers. Besides, that's part of the fun of roleplaying.

She has the ability to Consult for a limited number of times per day for predictions regarding things and people. First, she needs to believe that we are telling the truth. If she believes we are telling the truth, she has no reason to use Consult vs either of us.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by K on Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:54 am

I think she'll Consult regardless. And i don't think Breeze would ever agree to this - at least i hope not.

As for your reasons, i gotta say i'm baffled. Except for wanting to nail, her - i get that, but you'll understand if my character won't be inspired to help. As for answers, you'd trust her pillow talk more than you'd trust what she's written in her private journal - that she wants back bad enough that she came here personally to oversee it's recovery; i'd be lying if i said i see the logic.

Now, if the nonsensical the part where Breeze escapes is a compromise to appease the rest of the Party, that makes her capture in the first place your primary goal - which isn't really news to me, as i've been suspecting Konrad for a good long while now. I was still trying to see how you could believe this was a good idea if you had anyone's else's interests in mind, but it's basically screw all else, so long as you get to bang the oracle. You can play your character however you want, but that puts us at odds right there, and there's zero way in frell that my character will agree, endorse or just refrain from opposing that plan.

Now my cards are on the table too.


Ps: This is obviously just IC, and nothing personal whatsoever.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:10 pm

Then it is a good thing I didn't tell you yet, and that I don't plan to until we've taken the associated risks with giving giving Breeze to Lavoie and it is thenceforth your turn to act. Have some assurance in that I still need to convince Breeze to go along with it.

I don't think she will Consult unless she has reason to believe she should. She has a limited use of Consult. It's powerful, but she can't use it very often.

If you need more assurance relating to the threat of her ability to see the future, think about this. At an oracle's highest class level, she can cast Consult a maximum of 5 times. She used it twice to see you in the future. She used it when she met you and me. That's four times. For the sake of argument, if she has three more left, and if she bothers to use Consult on me, Steve, or the fairy, she will get nothing, and if/when she does, either of us must not do anything from that point on to help you out beyond telling you what to do.

As for my reasons, politely, your evaluation has been noted.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by K on Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:16 pm

Fair enough, just don't expect my character to act like a retard who has no idea what's going on. If anything, Meta has had me refraining from acting more suspicious than i have, not the other way around.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:13 pm

Careful, K. Making assumptions there. I'm not here to bang the oracle. It's a perk, but I'm not licentious to a fault, or even just licentous. In fact I don't think you have reasoning to make the connection inside your head, now or when we tell you the plan, that a lay is part of my personal reward. I believe I've made it abundantly clear within the first 4-5 pages of the first adventure thread that our original assignment is #1. And I really do believe those answers will help us. In this case, the "pillow talk" comes first, and you know I'll be rolling Deception.

Steve thinks we can prove she's the one behind the wolf attack, and I'm all for that, but remember that we are working for her. We prove she did a bad, and what's that do to our contract when she's put in jail? Plus, we make an enemy out of her. If we turn against her, she will know, because I can guarantee she is or was using Consult. Players are unpredictable, so any sensible GM will be compensating for that when rolling Consult for npcs. My little trick ensures we get the best of both worlds instead of picking whether to stick to the job and be good guys, stick to the job and do her dirty work, or turn on her and loot whatever isn't nailed down in her room.

And now we have to address this twice. Yes, I'm evil. I told everyone half a month before the game started and allowed you all to see my character sheet. If you have any concerns, say them now.

Zeiss had his own concern(s), which I addressed via PM. Kolson had this to say, and I had the following response.
Kolson Wezrae wrote:Since that's the case I'm fine with it Rory. Just don't do anything to hurt me or mine and we'll get along fine.
Rory wrote:I won't hurt the party and I won't thwart your plans. Help me get revenge, I like revenge.

Vegeta's words go likewise for me. I want to avoid a split or a party conflict, but I'm not gonna be forcibly converted to another alignment. And you know me, I'm not playing evil just because I wanna be an asshole, psychopath, or jack a murder-boner. This is not my license to f*** the story or f*** you.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by K on Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:33 pm

You also seem to be misunderstanding.

I have reacted, and will react, solely to what i know IC. I'm even curious to know what you and the Oracle spoke about, but i have refrained from looking at it, and i have not looked at your character sheet, and i won't.

Now, i pointed out the flaws in your plan, and the abysmal risk to the marginal reward, which instead of countering or reassuring, you basically pointed out how moot they are to you because of your character's reasons, and i responded in the only kind i know how.

So, now that i know that IC you don't care about my concerns - to the point of preemptively shutting me out of your plan entirely, all i have left is do my own thing just as you're doing yours. Your character being evil or a saint has nothing to do with it. I just won't play the idiot.

I have not lost focus or perspective, nor am i making this bigger than it is.


EDIT: Also, i'm not sure what you expected by letting me in on a plan that my character is not supposed to know about, and is intended to circumvent him entirely, specifically because you know he'd never agree. For that, you'd discuss with Kolson alone, and keep me completely out of it. From the moment i, the player, am given information about something, i assume i'm meant to discuss it. It's an awkward situation you put me in, having now to play the dumbass while i know what you're plotting behind my back but unable to act on it, being left open to being accused of metagaming if and when i start to thwart you. Now i have to keep myself in check, and second-guess my every decision on whether or not it's true to IC. It works against me more than it helps.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Zeiss on Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:18 pm

I'm the one who asked Rory to discuss this OOC first. While it is unfortunate that this info will now impede your roleplaying, I prefer for this subject to be discussed when your actions are not yet set in stone, to avoid serious drama in the future. If you guys agree to disagree, that's good enough for me.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Kolson on Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:36 pm

Okay, wow. That's quite the conversation you guys just had. But to give you guys a different perspective it's easy to get caught up with "this is what my character would do," and that is a valuable RP skill don't get me wrong, but at the end of the day the most important question you guys need to ask yourself is "Do I want to play this game with my friends?" Because if you forget that I'll tell you right now that this game will fail, and if it fails hard enough that could even impact RL relationships, intended or not. So rather than saying why your character can't do something and leaving it hanging, why not throw out there what you can live with.

I intend to pursue my plan of connecting the Oracle to recent events. What we do with that information if I'm successful is open for debate and if you guys want to use it to blackmail an Oracle I can live with that. On the other hand, I am open to your ideas and if conning the Oracle is the best way to accomplish our mission then yeah, I'm down for that. I just don't think you've made the case for it just yet.

Also Rory, you are assuming that all parties will go along with your plan. In all honesty and sincerity and from what you know about them, why would Steve and Fedler agree to put Breeze in this kind of danger? What will you do if you they disagree?
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:18 am

I wanted to tell you all this plan because you're all involved. This plan needs you to work, and I didn't believe you would find it preferable for me to foist it on you later when it would be new to your character, I know I wouldn't prefer it. I'm telling you all the plan regardless of who's involved because I don't want to go behind any of your backs. I'm answering your questions about my character's wants related to this because why the hell would I stop at "here's the plan and here's why you should go along with it"? I chose not to exclude anyone from having the information  I'm choosing to reveal because I care about your feelings. It's nice, it's polite, it's the right thing to do, and I want to keep playing with you guys.

I didn't think I would have to go with the hard sell. Think of whatever else you could grab while you're freeing Breeze, that's a valid alternative to looting or confiscating. She could be carrying something else that will help us understand. Not to mention she'll pay us, like a lot. Finally, it solves the problem of the oracle chasing after the fairy and causing problems wherever she goes. If she can't get Breeze, she's gone, and if she can't trace it back to us, our original assignment is still on.
The reward is we get to do everything. We get to trick her for a reward, take her stuff, do the job she hired the Coins for(my priority), protect the fairy, and then point our fingers at her. Preferably in Highwind, because the militia in Waterglass doesn't stand a chance against her.

I could tell you what I plan to tell Breeze:
Unless you bunker down somewhere and hide like you did in Waterglass while she causes problems for other honest hardworking folk with things like a possessed wolf, it is inevitable that she will capture you. Capture might be preferable if you mind that other people suffer needlessly and unknowingly for your sake, if only to build your strength enough to deal with her yourself or with friends, but that will take time. This is the quickest(quicker than proving the oracle guilty) and most rewarding way for you to get her out of your hair.

I'll even promise that she won't end up the oracle's prisoner again if she agrees to this, and that she will never be captured ever again so long as I live. And you can take that to the bank because my character's word is his bond. Fedler will go along with it if Breeze is willing.

What is with the 3rd degree, people? This will be easy. All we have to do is work together. And Mihai hasn't had any opportunity to do what he does best(you're that kind of thief, right?). Hmm, does Float give a bonus to Stealth?
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by K on Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:28 pm

Which brings us right back to the part where you have no plan to rescue Breeze apart from dumping it on me when it's most convenient to you. Ignoring how horribly it can backfire on you to shove Mihai into that predicament after playing him for a fool, everything from that point on is wild speculation on your part.

There's no reason whatsoever to assume Marie will give up the search for Breeze just because she eluded her again - especially after how far she's already come for just her diary. There's no reason whatsoever to assume she won't Consult to know if we're guilty of foul play if by some amazing stroke of luck i'm able to save Breeze; even just to be sure, especially since you don't even know how gullible she is or isn't, and my guess is not a lot.

You're relying on what she could or couldn't be carrying, or would or wouldn't tell you after you bang her, as a source of information; while dismissing her personal journal - the thing we've actually been sent here to recover, as a credible source. All of which is somehow supposed to further our original assignment, as opposed to actually getting busy with that directly.


Now, you've shut me out of this IC for a reason, and you can feel free to go along with it. I'm being 100% honest here when i say i don't take it personal.

What i'll also make clear, though, is that i'll give my character every bit of the same freedom you're giving yours, so don't be surprised if things don't go your way because of my agency. This is not spite talking, it's me making sure i won't be accused of things down the road.


Last edited by K on Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Zeiss on Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:31 pm

I could only give a +1 to Stealth, depending on how it is used. No walking on the ground makes no risk of making noise, but more chances of being seen.

Also, from where I'm sitting, it doesn't look like you guys will agree on this OOC. So unless you wish to pursue this line of discussion, I suggest we return to roleplaying. I'm still waiting on Steve and Konrad to finish their conversation before I can move things forward.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by K on Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:39 pm

For my part, i'm good to go.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:23 am

Zeiss, I want ink and parchment. I really should have that, given my skill set. Damn, not enough gold for ink to buy it retroactively. Can't wait to get my change back for those cupcakes.

I understand why your character would be upset, so I am expecting Mihai will chew Konrad out for keeping him out of the loop. Why don't we wait until after we've finished Story 1, to talk about how reasonable xyz is, or what one or the other might not completely understand about the facts, persons of interest, and the risks? As well as making dour implications relating to my ability to analyze a situation and make decisions, but that might be toeing the line.

But to correct you, I have planned Breeze's escape. My initial plan involved enabling her to do it on her own with tools provided, but that turned out to be very likely to backfire, so you being stealthy is my fallback plan. Whether or not I am actively part of that doesn't determine how well I've planned it. Please do not debate this. I am doing the best with what I've got and what I can come up with, and if you don't think that's enough, I am open to suggestions.

I have a hand mirror, that might help you see around corners. I have a crowbar, but its applications are all noisy. I haven't added my sheet to my signature, so I will do that shortly, because Stealth isn't something I can help with. Anybody have any rope, in case the oracle's room is on the second floor? Ugh, I had more than enough money left over from character creation to buy some! If not, this town should at least have rope in its store(s).

Y'know, I thought "f*** the oracle"(not literally) would be a good enough reason for the rest of you, it usually is for me. Real talk, would your character go along with this if he's outnumbered? If so, we don't really need to argue out of character. We could meet in character and you could say, "I don't agree with your things" and we could say, "fair enough, but this is what we're doing." Very quick and crude summary, but you get the idea, although at this point I'd prefer a narrator summary as we've pretty much chewed the fat already.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by K on Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:30 pm

I know you tend to take things in that manner, Rory, so let me be crystal clear: I have not, in any line of my posting in this entire thread, made any implication, explication, insinuation or snide remark about your ability to do anything.

I don't know how many posts is it now that i've been saying the same thing - i don't agree with your plan, but do as you feel and i won't take it personal.

Pointing out flaws in your logic and the judgements you made here and now is not a generalization on your person or your capabilities, so i trust you will remember that and not impugn my conduct.
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Re: OOC discussion

Post by Rory on Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:06 pm

Yeah well I'm fed up with trying to explain and Zeiss is probably right.

I would link my sheet in my sig, but it's apparently just this close to becoming too long. Shame too, I wanted to link all of my character sheets for all the characters I've made for this forum, but I couldn't, and if I can't have them all linked, I won't link any of them.
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Rory

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Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 26
Location : Iowa, US

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Elemental Affinity: Earth
Class: Barbarian Pugilist(5/3)
Race: Human

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Re: OOC discussion

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