Dungeoneering Format

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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by K on Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:01 am

Simple really, he's overwhelmed.

Btw, since this will likely get heated in the next few RP posts, i just want to say in advance that i don't mean to cast blame for this mess. I also thought the guy would just have the lights punched out of him, and never dreamed he'd get so seriously injured, or i'd have definitely been more forceful in trying to stop that punch, but i didn't, so it's on me too.

I do disagree with how the followup was handled, but to each his own. There was no good way out of this, anyway.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Archengeia on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:38 am

So let's recap. First you got into a heated argument... understandable, everyone involved was pretty pissed.

Then you hit a guy in the face so hard he's going to be permanently scarred even if he gets to a healer, which is still to be determined. Keeping in mind he's a Human, and Humans in general are pretty anti-violent and very anti-killing. The next thing that happened is natural; everyone present running in fear from the crazed psychopath (their perception). Then Rory rolls really well on his Intimidate on someone he is currently holding, having literally grabbed him as he tries to flee, and demands information out of him while Higaide tries to play good cop to the Rory-is-still-holding-him-while-near-the-man-he-beat-the-snot-out-of.

So yes, you succeeded brilliantly. Congrats. He's Intimidated. He's so Intimidated he can barely speak. If this was Skyrim, I'm sure you could use a speech check to turn him around, but it's not. It's D&D, where circumstances and actions have relevance and consequence.

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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by K on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:32 am

Just an aside, but i'm not playing the good cop, so much as genuinely trying to salvage this horror show.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Rory on Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:11 pm

But you are rolling Diplomacy? There is a mechanical attempt to help me get information from him? Just so this isn't totally lost on anyone.

Alright, he is Cowering then. I think I understand.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by K on Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:21 pm

In the interest of you letting the guy go, yes. One thing served the other, but that ship's long sailed, the moment the other guy got his jaw destroyed.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Rory on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:43 pm

So Diplomacy vs a player - very unnecessary - but not the guy I'm trying to interrogate? That is what I meant earlier with my suggestion. Good roleplay and mutual agreement between players will suffice for PC-to-PC interactions.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by K on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:48 pm

Um... i think one of us is misunderstanding the other here.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Rory on Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:02 am

Go ahead, K, I'm listening.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by K on Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:30 am

Dude i don't know what to say that i didn't already. I tried to persuade him to talk, so you'd let go of him. Now you start talking about diplomacy vs another player and i'm like wtf is that about.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Rory on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:12 am

Okay...I'm going to take that as "yes, Higaide did in fact use Diplomacy with the guy Rory's holding, so that the guy would answer, in the interest of satisfying Rory's reason for manhandling him, so that Rory would let him go."
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Rory on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:32 pm

We've got the player side and the GM side apparently waiting on each other, I'd like to see one side taken out of that equation. Also, I'm feeling irritable, but I want to remain polite about this: there was supposed to be a Diplomacy roll to persuade my victim to talk. Would you please reply with confirmation on this, K?
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by K on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:45 pm

You mean did i actually roll Dip? No. You saw that much in my posts - i didn't ask for it. I figured it would apply if called for, and honestly i didn't know what would be appropriate when dealing with a shellshocked guy, since psychology isn't a Skill, so i figured Arch would know best.

Why does this matter?
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Rory on Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:44 am

Wait, what? This matters because I want to find Sethos! Rory needs to know where Sethos is/was so he can find him and figure out what he might know about the bad people trying to destroy the human race. On a scale of how much this matters, from 1-10, this is a...7.

You wanna find out, then try. It applies when called for by you or the GM. If he says it doesn't apply, he'll tell you. And I doubt the guy I'm holding is so psychologically traumatized. He saw me hit his friend so hard that he's not getting back up, which is pretty vague. He'd probably check to see if his friend is okay, if I wasn't so gosh darn scary. Jaw's broken, but that's not something that is immediately apparent visually. The closest thing to any grotesque imagery by outward appearances is a lot of blood - unless it's an open wound fracture.

Now, Arch's post didn't reflect anything positive, or even that this guy was acknowledging you. This worried me, so I asked him on his stream if he did in fact roll Diplomacy for you. He said he didn't because you didn't say you were. That is why this is so important, he didn't get that feedback from you.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Essoje on Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:31 am

Usually in d20 you'd expect Intimidation to work like this (because it does work like this): a high intimidation roll means you were skilled enough to play someone's fear just enough to make them do your bidding. A low intimidation check simply doesn't move the guy's heart. It's a powerful but short-term solution.

Sadly in Arch's system it doesn't work that way: the higher you roll, the more fear you instill into someone's heart, making you likely to fail at what you are attempting, since it's rare that you need someone to become an babbling mass or even expect that someone will attack you because you rolled a 20... I dunno why the change, but it's there and it makes this skill too much of a gamble, more than it should ever be.

So suggestion for the future: Don't use intimidation unless you need someone to stay in place, broken by fear.

So yeah, I would say he's shellshocked alright considering how the mechanics work, so let's hope Higs can pull off a good roll.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by K on Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:05 am

Rory, you're not gonna find Sethos from this guy. You blew your chance to find Sethos from this guy the moment you smashed his friend's face. I've been holding it back because i've been kicking myself for not having stopped you like i should have (which is a whole separate matter, Arch; i don't think springing that outcome on us was fair at all) but since you're so hell bent on pushing this, let's get down to it - futile as it might be, seeing as Arch himself already laid it out for you plain as day after i tried to do the same.

The man is beyond reason. He is beyond reason because a second ago he was having a normal day buying groceries for his people, and now his friend is on the ground, missing half is face, and he's being manhandled and assaulted by you before he could even get his bearings. It was plain for me to see - before Arch even said a word about it - that you could have Lady Lightmane, Z and Fierneceal right here and now, begging in a sweet voice while wearing a hula skirt and a bikini and the guy STILL WOULD NOT RESPOND.

But you know what? Fine. Arch, can i please go back and roll Diplomacy on the shellshocked man? I don't know how many favors i normally ask during this campaign, but i ask for this one - useless as it may be. Pretty please?

Dip +13
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Archengeia on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:26 am

In response to Javan's post...

In this particular instance, if I were inclined to rules lawyering (which I am not), this might have been a bit clearer. The DC would simply be astronomically high due to circumstantial changes to DC based on everything going on (injured friend, Human, Rory's also a Human, the trauma he's been under recently, former enslavement, etc.) But rather than just say "Well you failed" I took it in another direction since it seemed logical to do so. One way or another this was a failure due to the circumstances and is going to remain a failure. Rule 1.

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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Archengeia on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:35 am

As an aside, to show how seriously I take this, I actually consulted with 3 other GMs I know about these circumstances and they all concurred with my ruling.

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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Essoje on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:37 am

Thanks for clearing it up, Arch.

Also poor human dudes. May your nameless, broken souls find peace in NPC Heaven or setting-specific alternative. Even tho one of you is not dead (yet). RIP.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by Rory on Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:16 pm

Okay. I had some roleplay ready in case Diplomacy would fail. In light of Javan's speculation on the way Intimidation works here, I'm beginning to question the viability of this skill outside of combat, at 'expert'-to-epic ranks.
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

Post by K on Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:42 pm

Arch, can i have that value i asked for, so i can give the guy the money before we're gone?
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Re: Dungeoneering Format

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