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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Archengeia on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:06 am

Caladrius wrote:Ok a few quick Questions:
Can I, and if I choose the Fey Bloodline Do I get to use those spells identified even though I am a White Mage?
I am also looking at Collegiate Wizard But again this says choose six spell, and the white mage only has 3 level one spell.
I guess I am a bit hazy on the spell part, Am I limited to the spell of my class?

You are fully limited to the spell selection from your class. If you want spells from another school you will have to multi-class. I spent some time looking over those feats and unfortunately I can't think of a way they could apply to this system so (for the first time to-date) I am going to say no to both. I am sorry.

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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Caladrius on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:30 am

That's totally cool, It more of a clarification point. Effectively I am limited to only three initial spells. (two healing and one sort of attack) That just means that I have to get behind some other melee type skill or I go more of a lore master route and play purely in support. (your dead ... heal...) I think you mentioned that no one has played a white mage before.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Essoje on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:40 am

Energy something metamagic feat might be useful to change Dia into something's elemental weakness. If the GM allows it, that's it.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Snarg of Wildpaw on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:48 am

Ahhhh, the role of "support". I'm a pretty firm believer that the way you play your character will have more of an impact on the game than what class role you have.

I'll use a real-life example of playing the exact same class in different ways:

Character 1:
Meelo is a cowardly musician who spends every combat dancing behind the fighters and boosting their stats while playing his lute. When a knowledge check has to be made, he'll volunteer and then quietly sink back in to the shadows until the next check is made. If they need to pump information out of someone, he'll step in to do a diplomacy check and then follow the party on their next adventure.

Character 2:
Relik is a fierce warrior who is always leading the charge in to battle. His shouts cause the mightiest warriors to quake in their boots and he serves as an inspiration to his entire party. He is easily the most knowledgeable of them all in most fields, he is always the first to step up and confront an enemy, yet he is skilled enough in the art of diplomacy to gather many allies when it normally would not be possible.

Both characters are bards and both have the same skills, yet they are used and described in different ways. Yes, they'll do meager damage on the battlefield, but there's absolutely a difference between "I debuff everyone with -2 to attack. I'm done for my turn." and "I shout a mighty challenge at my enemies and strike the fear of god in to their hearts". Same little support class debuff, but different ways of using it. One is the support in the back and the other is a fierce-some leader.

I guess I'm saying that just because you've got a class that's not all flashy offensive spells doesn't mean you can't be in the main spotlight. That is, unless you want to play a guy like that.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Caladrius on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:00 am

There are three feats that I keep coming back to

Able Learner* All skill ranks cost 1 skill point for you to purchase, even if the skill is cross-class for you.
Natural Skill* You gain 1 extra skill point per level (and 4x skill points at first level).
Twin Sword Style* When fighting with two blades (dagger, longsword, rapier, scimitar, or short sword, in any combination), you can designate a melee opponent during your action and receive a +2 shield bonus to your Armor Class against attacks from that opponent.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Archengeia on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:14 am

Essoje wrote:Energy something metamagic feat might be useful to change Dia into something's elemental weakness. If the GM allows it, that's it.
The Metamagic Feat in my setting is as follows: Energy Substitution: May pay 1 Maximized cost to replace the damage type of a given spell with another normal damage type. The new type of damage may not be Holy, Shadow, or Typeless. And yes I would fully allow it.

Caladrius wrote:That's totally cool, It more of a clarification point. Effectively I am limited to only three initial spells. (two healing and one sort of attack) That just means that I have to get behind some other melee type skill or I go more of a lore master route and play purely in support. (your dead ... heal...) I think you mentioned that no one has played a white mage before.
Whis Kor wrote:Ahhhh, the role of "support". I'm a pretty firm believer that the way you play your character will have more of an impact on the game than what class role you have.

I'll use a real-life example of playing the exact same class in different ways:

Character 1:
Meelo is a cowardly musician who spends every combat dancing behind the fighters and boosting their stats while playing his lute. When a knowledge check has to be made, he'll volunteer and then quietly sink back in to the shadows until the next check is made. If they need to pump information out of someone, he'll step in to do a diplomacy check and then follow the party on their next adventure.

Character 2:
Relik is a fierce warrior who is always leading the charge in to battle. His shouts cause the mightiest warriors to quake in their boots and he serves as an inspiration to his entire party. He is easily the most knowledgeable of them all in most fields, he is always the first to step up and confront an enemy, yet he is skilled enough in the art of diplomacy to gather many allies when it normally would not be possible.

Both characters are bards and both have the same skills, yet they are used and described in different ways. Yes, they'll do meager damage on the battlefield, but there's absolutely a difference between "I debuff everyone with -2 to attack. I'm done for my turn." and "I shout a mighty challenge at my enemies and strike the fear of god in to their hearts". Same little support class debuff, but different ways of using it. One is the support in the back and the other is a fierce-some leader.

I guess I'm saying that just because you've got a class that's not all flashy offensive spells doesn't mean you can't be in the main spotlight. That is, unless you want to play a guy like that.
Back when I still played D&D (haven't in years upon years) the role type I most preferred was support. And yes, I've played Bard before, make fun if you want. But the overall point is what a lot of people tend to forget is the addition of a support character is often WHY that big brawny fighter up there seems invincible... because you're backing him up. And of course, you can do so much more with non combat interactions.

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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Snarg of Wildpaw on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:24 am

Back when I still played D&D (haven't in years upon years) the role type I most preferred was support. And yes, I've played Bard before, make fun if you want. But the overall point is what a lot of people tend to forget is the addition of a support character is often WHY that big brawny fighter up there seems invincible... because you're backing him up. And of course, you can do so much more with non combat interactions.
Right, that's true, I'm just saying that if you play a bard or any support class you don't have to confine yourself to "buff buff, heal heal, diplomacy diplomacy, now I'm done" mentality and play second fiddle (har har har) to the front-liners just because you're a support-type class. I'm currently playing a bard in another D&D game I've got going on so that was the first example that came to mind. I just want to offer some support (ho ho ho) to anyone playing a healing/support/etc class. I know they may not seem very exciting on first glance to some.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Essoje on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:33 am

I'll be sincere here and say that mages have the greatest support means of all by default: Weaving.
If I wasn't playing a fighter aiming for something specific, I would have made a support character with weaving as a primary focus. If Archengeia's D&D videos didn't make it clear already, that skill allows for pulling awesome McGyver moments out of literally nowhere.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Archengeia on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:44 am

Essoje wrote:I'll be sincere here and say that mages have the greatest support means of all by default: Weaving.
If I wasn't playing a fighter aiming for something specific, I would have made a support character with weaving as a primary focus. If Archengeia's D&D videos didn't make it clear already, that skill allows for pulling awesome McGyver moments out of literally nowhere.

Yeah and that was admittedly part of the point of introducing Weaving as my crafting system (there were a few other points too). If it's not obvious, Flux over in the live campaign has cranked his skill as high as it is possible to go. Every feat, background, training... he's been pouring everything into it. And loving it, and (so far) it hasn't been broken or OP so... woo

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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Caladrius on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:33 am

Being reintroduced to the world of DnD, perhaps a Mage was not the best pick because A) I have never played a Mage before and B) Mages don't appear to be as straight forward as say a fighter. So I will need help on both front, but that was the group is for. I am willing to give it a go and that's why i keep asking what to do. So that being said; any recommendations? I have some that you may have missed HERE. I have some ideas on how I would like my character to develop, but a the same time I don't want to multi-class. I don't think it would fit. That being said, I think I might have some cool weaving ideas to make my Mage a little more Awesome in the coolness factor, but still maintain role of the White Mage.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Archengeia on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:51 am

Caladrius wrote:There are three feats that I keep coming back to

Able Learner* All skill ranks cost 1 skill point for you to purchase, even if the skill is cross-class for you.
Natural Skill* You gain 1 extra skill point per level (and 4x skill points at first level).
Twin Sword Style* When fighting with two blades (dagger, longsword, rapier, scimitar, or short sword, in any combination), you can designate a melee opponent during your action and receive a +2 shield bonus to your Armor Class against attacks from that opponent.

Starting to wonder how I keep missing posts like this, this is like the third time. Maybe it's not giving me the 'new posts' thing if something posts while I'm in mid post? Hrm. In any case I do apologize.
First, I would allow any of these three feats, with the proviso of having to select them at character creation as listed.
Second... recommendations... hrm. Honestly I'd have to think about that at greater length, I am not nearly as good at making PCs as most D&D players I know. Lemme think on that.

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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Snarg of Wildpaw on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:05 am

Sorry, I missed it as well since it was the last post on the last page and I started on this one the next time I checked.

Anyho, if you're choosing between those three, I'd say that overall Natural Skill would probably be the most valuable, although I can see Able Learner being good if you're really wanting to put a lot of ranks in a cross-class skill.

Twin Sword Style is, eh, I dunno. Your guy is not going to be able to hit with twin-swords if he attacks, which means they will essentially be for defense only. Now, if that's your concept that's fine, I just want you to know that you get massive penalties to hit anything if you're dual-wielding weapons that you aren't trained for in the first place. I'm talking like a -10 to hit if you're using two swords so you literally will not be able to hit anything. Now, as a mage you're obviously not going to be using your swords to attack a lot, so it's up to you. The +2 to AC is neat bonus to an enemy that's targeting you so you have a little bit of defense.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Caladrius on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:37 am

I have all the time in the world... before we start...

Ok now for the idea.

This might be a little sound a little extreme, but I think it could work if the balance is kept correct, but that’s up to the GM and little things called details.

The Hard Sell

First my PC needs to weave and objects (daggers most likely) The PC would be linked to the object magically, but limited by range. My PC would initialize the object by (placing, throwing, sticking in the ground, in an enemy, any action that would separate the PC form the object.) At some point the PC would be able to active the objects ability.

Here is where the coolness factor comes in. The object gives my PC the ability to instantly shift to the object and into the last position that the PC was holding it.
Think of it as a guaranteed dodge, or depending on the where the enemy is, it might be a guaranteed back-stab/flank attack. Realistically I could use ability in any situation where I might want to instantly back step. One-way door… nomore…

Again, in keeping it fair, It would probably be able to use it once or maybe twice a day and burn mana or something.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Archengeia on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:49 am

Caladrius wrote:I have all the time in the world... before we start...

Ok now for the idea.

This might be a little sound a little extreme, but I think it could work if the balance is kept correct, but that’s up to the GM and little things called details.

The Hard Sell

First my PC needs to weave and objects (daggers most likely) The PC would be linked to the object magically, but limited by range. My PC would initialize the object by (placing, throwing, sticking in the ground, in an enemy, any action that would separate the PC form the object.) At some point the PC would be able to active the objects ability.

Here is where the coolness factor comes in. The object gives my PC the ability to instantly shift to the object and into the last position that the PC was holding it.
Think of it as a guaranteed dodge, or depending on the where the enemy is, it might be a guaranteed back-stab/flank attack. Realistically I could use ability in any situation where I might want to instantly back step. One-way door… nomore…

Again, in keeping it fair, It would probably be able to use it once or maybe twice a day and burn mana or something.

The idea overall is something I find appealing so take this as a tentative approval. I'll need to figure out something to stabilize it for balance purposes. I do find myself curious why you want such a utility while a White Mage.

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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Essoje on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:51 am

Might I point out at this point that maybe Caladrius should consider a class change to Red Mage and specialize in white magic with him instead?
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Caladrius on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:51 am

To be honest it was going more towards my rouge, but then I changed my mind and became a white mage, but the idea was too good not to be said. Another idea just popped into my head. The character starts out as a White Mage (that's what he was raised as) but though his adventures becomes more of a rouge. But I am not sure how to pull this off even if its possible.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Snarg of Wildpaw on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:45 am

That sounds a lot like a limited Dimension Door spell built in to the object. Idea: for balancing purposes, you could make it activate with an action point?

It's definitely possible to transition over to rogue, it just means you'll be a little more spread out in your skills and abilities. If you're looking to dual-wield, rogue is the right choice though.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Sethos on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:33 pm

This may be the wrong place to ask this, but how many elemental abilities can I have?

I feel like I may have already asked this but I can't find the response so if you'll forgive me, I'm asking again.

EDIT: If I only get one feat to start (Which I think I do, I heard a bonus feat for being a white mage but I don't know the criteria so I'm just ignoring it for now) could I have it be Point Blank Shot s'il vous plais?
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Araiguna on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:01 pm

I have one question regarding the ranger class: Does the combat style mechanic (choosing ether archery or two-weapon combat) for the ranger at level 2, 6, and 11 apply to this campaign? im fixing a couple minor details with my character sheet and am considering using the melee weapon set up i had for my rogue class sheet by picking the feat of "two-weapon fighting" and picking the combat style for archery at level 2 then continuing to upgrade both separately. for now i'll assume this is ok until otherwise noted.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Archengeia on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:16 pm

Caladrius wrote:To be honest it was going more towards my rouge, but then I changed my mind and became a white mage, but the idea was too good not to be said. Another idea just popped into my head. The character starts out as a White Mage (that's what he was raised as) but though his adventures becomes more of a rouge. But I am not sure how to pull this off even if its possible.

No, not the dreaded Rouge class! (sorry, long-standing joke... Rogue, rouge... anyways.) I tend to be flexible because the entire idea is for you to have fun (and the rest of us as well obviously), but if you're having issues feel free to bug me or PM me or spitball or whatever about what kind of class you'd like to play in general, short and/or long term, and we can make that happen. And to continue in that vein...

Whis Kor wrote:That sounds a lot like a limited Dimension Door spell built in to the object. Idea: for balancing purposes, you could make it activate with an action point?

It's definitely possible to transition over to rogue, it just means you'll be a little more spread out in your skills and abilities. If you're looking to dual-wield, rogue is the right choice though.
...multi-classing into rogue is certainly an option, and far easier to go from Mage to martial than vice-versa in this setting. Would be a ...unique idea.

Sethos wrote:This may be the wrong place to ask this, but how many elemental abilities can I have?

I feel like I may have already asked this but I can't find the response so if you'll forgive me, I'm asking again.

EDIT: If I only get one feat to start (Which I think I do, I heard a bonus feat for being a white mage but I don't know the criteria so I'm just ignoring it for now) could I have it be Point Blank Shot s'il vous plais?
I already answered these in PMs (I just woke up which is probably why you thought I was ignoring you, sorry) but to reiterate: Elemental affinity, not abilities. It's a flavor, lore, roleplaying sorta thing. As for Point Blank Shot, sure.

Kitsune "Araiguna" wrote: I have one question regarding the ranger class: Does the combat style mechanic (choosing ether archery or two-weapon combat) for the ranger at level 2, 6, and 11 apply to this campaign? im fixing a couple minor details with my character sheet and am considering using the melee weapon set up i had for my rogue class sheet by picking the feat of "two-weapon fighting" and picking the combat style for archery at level 2 then continuing to upgrade both separately. for now i'll assume this is ok until otherwise noted.
Yes the combat style mechanic is in full effect, and you'll have to pick one and stick with it just like normal rangers do. However, picking one then taking feats for the other is viable (I know at least 2 players who've done that before) so that is fine.

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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Caladrius on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:42 am

Ok I think I have decide my [normal] feats.
Natural Skill* You gain 1 extra skill point per level (and 4x skill points at first level).
So does this also mean that I get even more additional staring skills? Laughing

Now just the metamagic. But being a support class, note quite sure what i am looking for. These are the ones that seem most appropriate, but I am not sure how much of a help they would really be.
Energy Substitution: May pay 1 Maximized cost to replace the damage type of a given spell with another normal damage type. The new type of damage may not be Holy, Shadow, or Typeless.
Quicken Spell: May pay 4 Maximized cost to be able to cast a second spell within the same turn. The 4 Maximized cost is spent on the second spell cast in said round. The Quickened spell does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Stealth Spell: May pay 3 Maximized cost to remove vocal and somatic components of a spell and be capable of applying a Stealth roll to the spell itself, with the roll having the Spell Level of the given spell added to it, in order to completely mask the spell’s existence from anyone present.
Silent Spell: May pay 1 Maximized cost to remove the vocal component of any spell.
Still Spell: May pay 1 Maximized cost to remove the somatic component of any spell.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Snarg of Wildpaw on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:08 am

Energy Substitution is for damaging spells, so you probably wouldn't use it a whole lot except in special circumstances if you're doing support.

Quick Spell is pretty costly, but it could be very useful. Getting off two spells in the same turn is great for anyone. A very good get-out-jail-free feat.

Stealth Spell, Silent Spell, and Stealth Spell are neat, although if you're doing support, I'm not sure how great it'll be except under very special circumstances - you probably won't be using them in normal combat.


Last edited by Whis Kor on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Essoje on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:11 am

I'll give my personal assessment about that list:

Energy Substitution would be great if you can make use of elemental weaknesses, be it on a enemy or the environment.

Quicken Spell: Not useful at such low level. Wait a bit until you can pay such cost. For all intents this is a costly "Get Out of Jail" card, when a second turn means bad things happen. Very situational, but nice to have at higher levels.

Stealth spell: 3 max cost is too step at level 1, and the usefulness is too situational, even more than Quicken spell. Even if you are loaded in terms of stealth ranks, the cost kills it a bit.

Silent spell: Situational, but it's a good idea to have this, because Silence is the death of any spellcaster. Also considering this is a staple anti-caster tactic, this could be a great way to not become a dead weight in the middle of a heated combat.

Still spell: Now I'm not that informed about how somatic components work exactly in D&D, but know for a fact that if you were paralysed but could talk or need to hold something as if your life depends on it, you could still cast a spell using this.

So yeah, in the same situation, I'd grab energy substitution or silent spell at level 1, then pick the other in the next opportunity.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Caladrius on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:15 am

I think that's why I am having such a hard time with the metamagic, nothing really seems to fit for a white mage. All the others read like they are all offensive spells. Like would I really need to cast heal for 24 hours? If that's the case it would be like cast heal on some other PC and then let them go into combat, any hit would be healed right away. Effectively making the PC invincible. Unless I am reading too much into the feats, which I probably am.
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Re: Feats Thread

Post by Archengeia on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:19 am

I was going to post but Whis and Essoje summarized my thoughts nicely. For reference, all spells have verbal and somatic components, so anything preventing you from moving (being tied and bound, paralyzed, etc.) would stop you from casting.

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Rule 0: We're all here to have fun.
Rule 1: GM's word is law.
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Archengeia

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2013-02-13

Character sheet
Elemental Affinity: Nothingness
Class: GM
Race: Nobody

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